Events - Community Consultation 19th July 2008

Community Consultation

This event was held between 10am and 4pm on Saturday 19th July 2008 at New Barnet Community Centre, 48/50 Victoria Road, New Barnet. Around 250 local residents visited during the day.

Community Consultation 19th July 2008 Community Consultation 19th July 2008

There were displays featuring:

Visitors were encouraged to write down their comments on post it notes to add to the Tesco, Asda, and Vision For New Barnet displays. ALL these comments are presented IN FULL below.

There were also childrens activities and a chance to talk with other local residents over a cup of tea or coffee. Many people also completed our survey and signed the petition.

'Demolished' Presentation

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NBCA concerns with proposed new Tesco scheme

  • No justification for a 45,000 sq ft supermarket opposite Sainbury's.
  • Tesco while allegedly owning 40% of the land mass only appear to own 10% of the Freeholds. About 30 households or businesses will be pushed out.
  • There is no planning brief for such a development.
  • Loss of existing businesses - post office, NHS dentist, The Golden Palace, The Kitchener, petrol station, garage, florist, independent estate agent, newsagent, café and other small local shops, businesses and suppliers.
  • Threat to businesses in the wider area e.g. East Barnet, Lytton Road.
  • Increased traffic. 800 - 1000 extra car movements an hour, ALL entering and leaving the shop via Victoria Road. This doubles the numbers of cars per hour in East Barnet Road.
  • Negative Impact on air quality and loss of quality of life.
  • 24-hour trading.
  • Loss of existing family homes.
  • Large number of 1 and 2 bedroom flats (250 - 300) of which there has been a surplus both for sale and rent for over a year in the area.
  • Insufficient car parking for number of flats.
  • Height, mass and form of the proposed buildings (eight storeys high) 4 storeys higher than LA fitness and 2 storeys higher than St James Church designed for inner city and not suitable for suburbs.
  • Inadequate infra structure e.g. Sewers, Electricity and water.
  • Insufficient school places, doctors and dentists.
  • No community benefits of any sort.

Visitor Comments on Tesco Scheme

This type of development does nothing to improve the Quality of life for the Residents in New Barnet. All it does is tear out the heart of a community - and leaves the area dead!

This development is TOO LARGE + unnecessary for the area. Ugly housing, no character. Very ESSENTIAL services being lost such as Post Office + Health Services + Garage. New Barnet does not need this Tescos Development!

We do not need another superstore - we have Sainsburies. I am against Tesco. It would also cause too much traffic & alter the character of New Barnet

The height of the store & flats will upset contours of the area

NO GO TESCO - Don't know of one New Barnet resident in favour of your proposals. Better call it a day!!

EMERGENCY VEHICLES all of these come down E.B. Road. If plans to send ambulances to Barnet Hospital instead of Chase Farm goes ahead how will they get through?

Absolutely not. We have enough shops + 1/2 bed empty flats already.

We cannot allow any development which is higher than 3 storeys as it will spoil the whole area. We do not need any more supermarkets & our roads cannot cope with the extra traffic.

This will look like a tired shopping precinct in 10 years time. Totally characterless!

More community facilities. A bit less commerce.

Totally unworkable in terms of traffic, disruption before + after. Harmful to important services. Using Victoria Road is impractical for access.

I agree something needs to be done, it is all run down but this project is not the solution, just don't think viable, 2 more supermarkets the traffic alone day + night.

Post Office will go - Disable will have to travel on buses & if in electric wheelchair this is not feasible.

EVERY ROAD in the area will be blocked - not just E.B Road. Every local resident will suffer from this degradation of the area.

Definitely against it!
- Don't need more shops of this scale in the area
- Will ruin sense of Community / Individuality
- No proposals to put anything back into local community - esp Youth provision
- What about road congestion - they can't move the railway bridge!

Tesco Scheme
Massive overdevelopment
Traffic saturation now.
One supermarket enough for NB
Destruction of established businesses
Will change townscape for the worse

This development would destroy many of our important community facilities, such as post office, dentist. The number of flats (probably buy-to-let) would impact hugely on school places, doctors, dentists, etc.

Local roads cannot sustain extra traffic engendered

We do not need extra traffic supermarkets. No thought to traffic comming up Park Rd. No rest even at weekends!

Both schemes are totally unnecessary - we do not need another supermarket or flats or the resultant increased traffic.

Tesco's plan would be a disaster for New Barnet. We need the existing small businesses, not another supermarket.

There is absolutely NO NEED to have THREE major s/markets within walking distance of each other.

I am totally against this! There is already enough supermarkets in the area.
The traffic is already poor with the proposals it would be a joke.

Completely unacceptable - It will destroy the distinctiveness of the area, and turn it into a characterless retail morgue ruined by excessive traffic. This kind of mindless unecological development must stop.

Urban repair who pays the rate payers not the s/markets Who pays for drains, roads etc not the developer us.

I was appalled at the Tesco Proposals - Not at all in keeping with New Barnet dimensions - We do NOT need another Supermarket + TESCO will just drive out Sainsburys.

The scheme is corporate greed
Lets have a park

We do not want any more Tesco Asda

We do not have the roads in the area to support the volume of traffic this scheme would create. We already have enough supermarkets and shops

Absolutely atrocious!
Far too tall - no renovation of characterful Victorian street front
Too large a development for the area
Unwanted and unneeded
Leave our local businesses alone.

We don't need this!
It will destroy the area.

Corporate greed in the extreme.
We don't need Tesco or Asda.

We need housing and small shops and a community!
NOT Tesco!

Prefer Tesco proposal but Asda a good second choice.

Tesco plans a big improvement on present mess on East Barnet Road.

Query comparison between Tally Ho. Pictures and reality.

Global organisation imposing their ideas! We don't need them. Loss of control for profit!!

Absolutely no Tesco!
Refuse to shop in Tesco out of principle!

Supermarkets don't enhance the environment - on the contrary - they demean the surrounding area!

It is awful to think that Tesco's so called "Ecological" plan is to destroy perfectly good buildings and houses to build this. The extra traffic and the threat to local amenities and businesses is unacceptable.

Absolutely NO!! - Local character destroyed - no facilities, shops, small businesses, young people, local people go where. The "false" impression of size, heights, minimisation of impact especially traffic 24 hrs x 600 parking places = ???

Sainsburys fulfils the needs of our community.
We do not want Tesco telling us that we need more flats. Aren't there enough in New Barnet. We don't need any more superstores.

What will happen to our New Barnet post office.

East Barnet Road needs re-generation, very run down now.

East Barnet people shop at Sainsburys. Asda Tesco are relying on customers coming by car!! If coming by car you can just as well go to B/wood P/bar Cockfosters etc



NBCA concerns with proposed new ASDA scheme

  • No justification for a 40,000 sq ft supermarket 200 yards away from Sainbury's.
  • Threat to businesses in the wider area e.g. East Barnet Road and Village, Lytton Road.
  • Increased traffic. 900 extra car movements an hour. This nearly doubles the numbers of cars per hour in East Barnet Road.
  • Negative Impact on air quality and loss of quality of life.
  • 16/24 hour trading.
  • Large number of flats (200) most of which are 1 and 2 bedroom of which there has been a surplus both for sale and rent for over a year in the area.
  • Insufficient car parking for number of flats.
  • Height, mass and form of the proposed buildings (eight storeys high along the railway embankment and up to six storeys high on the park side, albeit largely hidden by the row of mature trees. This is inappropriate development for the suburbs.
  • Inadequate infra structure e.g. Sewers, Electricity and water.
  • Insufficient school places, doctors and dentists.
  • Limited community benefits.

Visitor Comments on ASDA Scheme

ASDA Less devastating than Tesco due to location but still enormous traffic problems for all the surrounding area.

ASDA Lesser of 2 evils - compared to Tesco's proposal, however still same concerns re traffic congestion problems + also don't need another large supermarket in the area. Also not proposing to put anything back in the community - esp re community safety + provision for youth services.

ASDA Traffic issues haven't been thought through properly. Still too big a development for the area. Better placed than Tescos.

Traffic is the major issue - Asda sounds preferable, but still a huge worry.

Asda less of problem, NO TO TESCO but in saying yes to Asda, the TRAFFIC PROBLEM needs sorting out badly (even if neither stores are built)
But also something to think about, if neither of the stores get the go ahead, who and what will we get if they sell their property.

Really pleased to see they have incorporated access to new JCOSS School in plans - see they are thinking about the community!

Asda site preferable to Tesco. IF we have to have one.

Asda scheme by far the less evil of the two.
Vehemently against Teso
Asda is only workable with enormous care in traffic planning

Huge traffic flow will impact on ALL surrounding roads. Preferable to the "faceless" Tesco development.

I am disabled - I like the local shops because they are small accessible they have everything I need and the community is huge - everyone knows one another. We don't want any development.

Take away the camouflage of the trees and what have you got - YUK!!

The Asda site is ideal for a large swimming pool or community leisure centre linked to the Park.

Traffic will be at a standstill. Christmas will be awful. 24 hr deliveries! STOP

ASDA scheme.
Traffic saturation now.
One supermarket is enough for NB.

I am dreading it if these plans are accepted. The thought of having more traffic and the possibility of putting out small business in New Barnet and East Barnet is a horrifying prospect.

It will be like living on a retail park. We have enough supermarkets in this area to support the population - we need more community facilities - This is the responsibility of the council not - large retail outfits. We do not need years of upheaval with road changes etc.
Thank you for thinking about us but no thank-you to the re-development.

Not only do we not need anymore supermarkets we do not need anymore flats. We already have enough of them!

Access to this site is too restricted for this massive development. Housing is needed - more supermarkets are not!
How about renovating the park instead? Adding a cafe + other leisure facilities?

Traffic. Traffic. Traffic!
Has anyone from Asda or Tesco seen a large vehicle try and negotiate Victoria Road already.
I didn't move to New Barnet to live in a retail park.

Can't see how 2 x 24 hour supermarkets can be justified in an area already well served by food outlets. Some of the run down buildings on East Barnet Road, however could be replaced by attractive housing.
Also developing the site of the old call centre should be allowed, again, for housing.
I do believe New Barnet needs a facelift tho'!
The biggest problem is congestion due to a huge traffic increase and these grounds alone should surely prevent a major supermarket development.
We don't want New Barnet to become as congested as Southgate or the High Street.

Asda scheme corporate greed.
Let's have a park!

No thought.

No need for another supermarket. Asda 10 min away in Southgate.

We don't need another supermarket with increased traffic flow taking business from other shopping areas. We need better facilities, opportunities for local businesses + shops, buildings to enhance the area - this is a residential area NOT an out of town zone for shabby redevelopment.

I am against TESCO and ASDA!
We already have Sainsburys, Budgens and a mini Tesco and other small outlets.
This would ruin New Barnet for what it is now.

Another supermarket why? need?
Traffic, Traffic, Traffic.

Global business telling the community what they need. Loss of a community for - PROFIT!!

One superstore is enough in New Barnet - we have Sainsbury's.
No to Asda
No to Tesco
Lets have local shops back.

We don't need another supermarket. The roads will not support the traffic. What will happen to small shops? They are entitled to make a living too. It is not all about "BIG BUSINESS"!!

We don't want any more supermarkets. We are happy with our small village shops. We have a community.

No thought to traffic coming up Victoria Rd and Park Rd.
This was not in their model.
Extra traffic at weekend.
We don't need this.

We already have a Sainsbury's, it is uncessary to build 24/7 shops like Tescos and Asdas. We like our village how it is.

What a missed opportunity!
We need a leisure facility / swimming pool / cafe linked with Victoria Park! Not another supermarket.

Even one new supermarket development will ruin the area, so Asda too must be stopped. The scheme will not benefit the area, but just make wealthy shareholders in Asda wealthier still- and at great cost to us as residents and homeowners.

I agree with comment.
Wd. be a good idea to have leisure centre + swimming pool on ASDA site linked to Park.

The traffic will be a nightmare.
It's too big.


Issues to be considered in case of ASDA application

  • ASDA own 100% of the land.
  • The site has been publically scheduled for retail / housing / anything else, except a nuclear power station, in both the 1991 and 2001 Unitary Development Plan. New Barnet Gas Works Albert Road New Barnet Mixed use, retail and leisure on southern part of the side. Subsequent Government and GLA policies have encouraged housing on such sites. Their proposals tick all the boxes.
  • Their proposals meet the requirements of the Councils Three Strands Policy.
  • New Barnet is identified as an area for developments such as this.
  • Their proposals meet the Planning brief issued by the council.
  • The Railway Bell and Builders Arms are both retained.
  • They will upgrade Victoria Recreation Park to Green Flag Park Status.
  • All the other existing occupied premises in East Barnet Road are retained - for the time being.
  • They have a competent contractor and house builder in the team.
  • They have a competent remediation specialist on board and propose to take a year to clean up the site by soil washing on site at a cost of £10 million.
  • They have been talking to the officers for three years and have in principle support for their general proposals.
  • They appear to have the technical side reasonably thought through.
  • Their supermarket is 40,000 sq ft against Tesco's 45,000.
  • They will ask for 24-hour operation but settle for 16/18 hours.
  • They are proposing 200 new homes against Tesco's 300 and have a reputable housing association lined up to manage the affordable housing.
  • They have better thought through traffic proposals on site and the access area although they haven't addressed the wider traffic chaos issues. It appears that there is dispute between them and Barnet officers who are stuck in a time warp - shades of JCoSS.
  • They have built in a secure area at the far end of their site for JCoSS buses to get them off the local roads.

A Vision For New Barnet

A Vision For New Barnet

What do we, the local residents, want to see in New Barnet?

Urban Repair

  • Repair and upgrade the existing businesses, shops and houses. The area is crying out for investment in the form of urban repair, not area regeneration.
  • Changes should be organic and incremental.
  • Keep the existing varied mix of buildings as far as possible. Some localised demolition and rebuilding will be necessary, but not wholesale replacement.
  • Variety of shops and imaginative new businesses as well as preserving existing older businesses which should be given priority over national chains and multiple businesses. Local cafes rather than national chains. Local fish and chip shops rather than national restaurant & takeaway chains.
  • Where existing businesses are relocated into new buildings, rent levels must be fixed for five years and limited to increases of no more than RPI for fifteen years.
  • Keeping business in local or non supermarket ownership to maintain individuality and variety.
  • No 24 hour operation in any shop, club or public house. Local traders already provide 16 hour / 7 day cover.
  • Provision of affordable family sized accommodation (3/4/5 bedroom) mainly in houses. Where flats are provided they must be low rise spacious family units and have their own amenity space e.g. large usable balconies. There is an excess of 1 & 2 bed flats vacant in the area already.
  • Upgraded infrastructure. More reliable electricity & water supplies and larger sewers.
  • A social & community focussed life, not purely profit focussed.
  • Preserve the sense and atmosphere of the existing local community. The public meeting in St James Church demonstrated this strong local feeling.

Traffic & Transport

  • Keep traffic levels to current levels, or minimal increase only with appropriate road improvements. There is very limited scope for road improvements due to the constraints of the railway bridge across East Barnet Road and the narrow widths and Victorian pattern of the existing roads.
  • Ability to walk to schools safely.
  • More cycle parking and facilities.
  • Improved public transport.
  • Better & safer pedestrian access to New Barnet Station.
  • More buses serving further destinations, with improved bus stop provision.
  • Free bus service from New Barnet to Tesco store at Potters Bar and ASDA store at Southgate.

Facilities for the Community

  • Public House run by independent licensee or local brewery chain, not a national chain.
  • Independent Sub Post Office.
  • Independent Pharmacy.
  • NHS Dentist.
  • NHS Doctors Surgery.
  • Police Station suitable for local safer neighbourhood team.
  • Community Centre.
  • Skateboard Park.
  • Sports Centre at affordable prices.
  • Swimming Pool at affordable prices.
  • Garden Centre.

Visitor Comments on 'A Vision For New Barnet'

We don't want any more commuters to use New Barnet Station
Nor for stores to be open 24 hours
Shopping hours only
Why not have a small bus circular route to connect Oakwood + NBarnet via Brookhill Road - this would ease pressure on other buses at peak times + might free up village thorugh traffic. Thinking of when JCOSS opens

Allow the area to develop in a natural and environmentally-friendly way. Major imposed schemes are not the answer. Local people must decide what happens, not commercial concerns or secretive council bodies.

Keep it as a village please. Keep the community feel!

On the Asda site swimming pool / leisure centre would be wonderful - it could merge into the Park.

Preserve the "intimate" shopping experience (especially valued by old people)
Small units with normal shopping open hours (unsocial working hours disrupts family life)

On Asda site - suggest:
Leisure centre
Swimming pool
Skateboard park for the boys

Sustainability is the buzz word at the moment. We need more green spaces allotments to grow things and cherish nature.

Preserve village low rise buildings. Desparate need for leisure area & Olympic size swimming pool. Paris has more Olympic pools than there where [?]

We need improved facilities for the community - Leisure facilities - sports centre + swimming pool. A community hall/centre. More family housing with outside spaces. More for children/teenagers to do.

Preserve the old buildings - keep our Victorian heritage.

Some allotments locally

Create new allotment sites
Spaces for music / art / cultural venues

New Barnet is in chronic need of regeneration, but Tesco and Asda are not the way forward. It is heart-breaking to see the old photographs which show what was destroyed on the site where Sainsbury's stands. Half of the heart of NB is already destroyed - if TESCO effectively own the high street, the rest of it will be gone, with barely any trace of its history being left. And if Tesco or Asda do get the go ahead, what will become of the Sainsbury's site? They will probably move out, leaving the site to be used by who knows who? A further insult to the memory of New Barnet. We should find a way to work with what we've got.

Preserve village scale and feeling

Asda - suggest community development / leisure / limited housing - On Tesco site local businesses, farmers market, redevelopment to match local character + with local consultation unite ALL community affected by these plans.


The Vision For New Barnet document has been updated following these comments.

A Vision for New Barnet

How could it be implemented?

1) Draft initial strategy for the Town centre e.g. East Barnet Road, Lytton Road, Station Road shops.

2) Consult traders, residents, freeholders and leaseholders.

3) Revise strategy and consult locally again.

4) Formal public consultation and adopt as local strategy.

5) Draw up local guidance notes for shops and business premises.

6) Use Section 106 money to improve one or two premises.

7) Publicise success.

8) Encourage owners to upgrade premises in accordance with strategy and local guidelines as leases expire or are renewed.

9) Accept that it could take 5 - 10 years to go along the street frontage.

10) Approach Urban Splash or Places for People or similar organisations to enter into area strategy with Barnet and land owners.

11) Consider CPOs for large absentee Landowners with derelict holdings.